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	<title>Comments on: What Cubans believe in</title>
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	<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html</link>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-134171</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-134171</guid>
		<description>Ben:
Go to http://www.thorlo.com/ws6/outlet_store.php &amp; get ur Thorlos cheaper. U can&#039;t order outlet items online, but u can call the outlet store &amp;  they will ship them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben:<br />
Go to <a href="http://www.thorlo.com/ws6/outlet_store.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.thorlo.com/ws6/outlet_store.php</a> &amp; get ur Thorlos cheaper. U can&#8217;t order outlet items online, but u can call the outlet store &amp;  they will ship them</p>
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		<title>By: Joanne</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-134023</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-134023</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t speak for Spain, but I don&#039;t think higher education is free in any other developed state. Not even in Britain. It is usually much cheaper in the USA because it is partially subsidized by the government, but not free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t speak for Spain, but I don&#8217;t think higher education is free in any other developed state. Not even in Britain. It is usually much cheaper in the USA because it is partially subsidized by the government, but not free.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-121392</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 04:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-121392</guid>
		<description>Martin, you didn&#039;t say what kind of socks those were that you purchased?  I myself generally buy socks that cost around $5 a pair because I think that thick socks are more comfortable and they last longer, meaning that they don&#039;t end up with holes in them.  And I like to try to get my socks on sale.  But if I bought them from a specialty shop in the local mall them I am sure that I could find some for more than nine dollars.  Actually in the past I have purchased several pairs of Thorlo brand socks whick do cost $10 or more a pair.  How about going back to Cuba again, and this time just taking plenty of socks.  
You said you were only there for a two day visit so there should be plenty of room in your suitcase if your next stay isn&#039;t much longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, you didn&#8217;t say what kind of socks those were that you purchased?  I myself generally buy socks that cost around $5 a pair because I think that thick socks are more comfortable and they last longer, meaning that they don&#8217;t end up with holes in them.  And I like to try to get my socks on sale.  But if I bought them from a specialty shop in the local mall them I am sure that I could find some for more than nine dollars.  Actually in the past I have purchased several pairs of Thorlo brand socks whick do cost $10 or more a pair.  How about going back to Cuba again, and this time just taking plenty of socks.<br />
You said you were only there for a two day visit so there should be plenty of room in your suitcase if your next stay isn&#8217;t much longer.</p>
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		<title>By: av2ts</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119745</link>
		<dc:creator>av2ts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119745</guid>
		<description>Cuba&#039;s economy is booming today. GDP growth has been near double digits for 3 years - even according to the CIA. Cuba&#039;s growth was stunted by the fall of the Soviet Union. They fell further than the US during the Great Depression, yet did not sacrifice any of their social services or safety net, and have recovered well.

As for State Department comparisions of Cuba&#039;s current stats vs 1958, their report purposefully utilizes out of date data (from the mid 90s, post recession) to make spurious claims that do not hold water today.  

Comparing Cuba&#039;s socialist economy versus others in the region (ie. calling it the &quot;2nd poorest&quot;) is a very dubious excercise - as the Economist recently noted (concluding they do not believe the estimate of 2nd smallest). GDP, of course, bares little relation to the progress of citizens. GDP has been increasing the States, but the standard of living of Americans has been falling since the 70s. But if you want to call Cuba a poor country, at least admit they do not let their citizens fall into poverty. According to the UN&#039;s human development index (HDI), Cuba&#039;s poverty index is one of the lowest for developing countries in the world (6/106 countries). They rank #2 in the world for their human development when compared to their GDP. Number 2 in the world. So cuba makes do with what they have to take care of their citizens better than almost every other country on earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cuba&#8217;s economy is booming today. GDP growth has been near double digits for 3 years &#8211; even according to the CIA. Cuba&#8217;s growth was stunted by the fall of the Soviet Union. They fell further than the US during the Great Depression, yet did not sacrifice any of their social services or safety net, and have recovered well.</p>
<p>As for State Department comparisions of Cuba&#8217;s current stats vs 1958, their report purposefully utilizes out of date data (from the mid 90s, post recession) to make spurious claims that do not hold water today.  </p>
<p>Comparing Cuba&#8217;s socialist economy versus others in the region (ie. calling it the &#8220;2nd poorest&#8221;) is a very dubious excercise &#8211; as the Economist recently noted (concluding they do not believe the estimate of 2nd smallest). GDP, of course, bares little relation to the progress of citizens. GDP has been increasing the States, but the standard of living of Americans has been falling since the 70s. But if you want to call Cuba a poor country, at least admit they do not let their citizens fall into poverty. According to the UN&#8217;s human development index (HDI), Cuba&#8217;s poverty index is one of the lowest for developing countries in the world (6/106 countries). They rank #2 in the world for their human development when compared to their GDP. Number 2 in the world. So cuba makes do with what they have to take care of their citizens better than almost every other country on earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices auf Deutsch &#187; Kuba: Gespräche mit den Menschen</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119705</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices auf Deutsch &#187; Kuba: Gespräche mit den Menschen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119705</guid>
		<description>[...] Varsavsky spricht über Gedanken, die er sich nach Gesprächen mit normalen Kubanern bei seinem letzten Trip auf die Insel gemacht hat. Er zeigt auch [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Varsavsky spricht über Gedanken, die er sich nach Gesprächen mit normalen Kubanern bei seinem letzten Trip auf die Insel gemacht hat. Er zeigt auch [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Cuba: Thoughts After Talking with Cubans</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119695</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Cuba: Thoughts After Talking with Cubans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119695</guid>
		<description>[...] Varsavsky provides his thoughts after talking with ordinary Cubans during a recent trip to the island and posts some footage of his time in Havana.   Share [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Varsavsky provides his thoughts after talking with ordinary Cubans during a recent trip to the island and posts some footage of his time in Havana.   Share [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fraydoh</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119674</link>
		<dc:creator>Fraydoh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119674</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your views, Martin.  I have friends who escaped from Cuba, whose views are naturally distorted.  And I read Granma, whose views are distorted.  I saw the Michael Moore film -- distorted.  And thanks to av2ts for those views, too.  We all see things through our own lenses, so it seems to me that the only way to approach &quot;truth&quot; is to view from all angles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your views, Martin.  I have friends who escaped from Cuba, whose views are naturally distorted.  And I read Granma, whose views are distorted.  I saw the Michael Moore film &#8212; distorted.  And thanks to av2ts for those views, too.  We all see things through our own lenses, so it seems to me that the only way to approach &#8220;truth&#8221; is to view from all angles.</p>
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		<title>By: Pelle</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119668</link>
		<dc:creator>Pelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119668</guid>
		<description>avt2s: Seriously, Cuba is the 2nd poorest country in Latin America. You are talking like a true believer that is for sure. I won&#039;t comment any ore on that.

Martin: You might wan&#039;t to take a look at these &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stats about pre Castro Cuba&lt;/a&gt;. Yes I know they are from the US state department, but they are merely a comparison between modern day Cuba and 1958 Cuba as well as the rest of Latin America.

It seems like Cuba actually had pretty good healthcare and education back in the 50&#039;s. Their economy was booming.

Your sock story also brings to mind for me the differences between super globalized Panama and protectionist Argentina. Argentina has great quality locally made clothing available at upper middle class prices, but the cheaper stores sell really poor quality locally made textiles. Panama on the other hand has both good quality cheap Chinese clothes as well as great upper middle class like clothes from Colombia and Argentina. These things make a big difference in the life of poor people in Panama. 

While we Europeans don&#039;t like to think that fashion should be important to poor people. At least in Latin America it is to a big extent, it is a way that people express who they are and in many respects help blur the class lines a bit more than the way it was before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>avt2s: Seriously, Cuba is the 2nd poorest country in Latin America. You are talking like a true believer that is for sure. I won&#8217;t comment any ore on that.</p>
<p>Martin: You might wan&#8217;t to take a look at these <a href="http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm" rel="nofollow">stats about pre Castro Cuba</a>. Yes I know they are from the US state department, but they are merely a comparison between modern day Cuba and 1958 Cuba as well as the rest of Latin America.</p>
<p>It seems like Cuba actually had pretty good healthcare and education back in the 50&#8242;s. Their economy was booming.</p>
<p>Your sock story also brings to mind for me the differences between super globalized Panama and protectionist Argentina. Argentina has great quality locally made clothing available at upper middle class prices, but the cheaper stores sell really poor quality locally made textiles. Panama on the other hand has both good quality cheap Chinese clothes as well as great upper middle class like clothes from Colombia and Argentina. These things make a big difference in the life of poor people in Panama. </p>
<p>While we Europeans don&#8217;t like to think that fashion should be important to poor people. At least in Latin America it is to a big extent, it is a way that people express who they are and in many respects help blur the class lines a bit more than the way it was before.</p>
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		<title>By: av2ts</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119565</link>
		<dc:creator>av2ts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119565</guid>
		<description>At least you are honest about the opinions you heard on the streets of Havana - that they have little bad to say about the Communist Party or their socialist system. Most reporters/commenters ignore the 99 people who like their system, despite the downfalls and struggles, and print every thing the one negative person has to say. You just call them &quot;wrong&quot; or brainwashed and discount their actual lifetime experience on the island in favor of your 2 days on the island as a tourist getting ripped off on a pair of socks. Of course, if you would have asked a Cuban where they get their socks, you would know everyday Cubans don&#039;t pay for things with dollars in dollar stores - that is for tourists and those better off Cubans with access to dollars from their family in Miami or under the table. It is a form of progressive redistribution.

Any Cuban would be terribly insulted by what you wrote - implying they don&#039;t know what is going on in the world and are not educated. In fact, Cubans have the highest test scores in all of Latin America and, down to the taxi drivers, have a very sophisticated political culture. I wonder if you could even have political conversations like you apparantly did - in other countries, including the US or Spain. You misrepresent their arguments and twist their views. Cubans know their history. They were speaking metaphorically if they said they were under US (capitalist) domination until 1959 - as they were!! They know other areas have universal health care, but they also know many countries in the region do not or have a terrible system where the rich get better treatment than everyone else (like Ecuador, where I just came back from). Cubans go abroad to help their neighbors and come back saying they have never seen poverty like that exists in Bolivia, El Salvador or Jamaica. 

And it is not exploitation when your $8 sock purchases and $20 cab ride are being plowed back into basic education and health care, rather than a rich person&#039;s pocket. Get real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least you are honest about the opinions you heard on the streets of Havana &#8211; that they have little bad to say about the Communist Party or their socialist system. Most reporters/commenters ignore the 99 people who like their system, despite the downfalls and struggles, and print every thing the one negative person has to say. You just call them &#8220;wrong&#8221; or brainwashed and discount their actual lifetime experience on the island in favor of your 2 days on the island as a tourist getting ripped off on a pair of socks. Of course, if you would have asked a Cuban where they get their socks, you would know everyday Cubans don&#8217;t pay for things with dollars in dollar stores &#8211; that is for tourists and those better off Cubans with access to dollars from their family in Miami or under the table. It is a form of progressive redistribution.</p>
<p>Any Cuban would be terribly insulted by what you wrote &#8211; implying they don&#8217;t know what is going on in the world and are not educated. In fact, Cubans have the highest test scores in all of Latin America and, down to the taxi drivers, have a very sophisticated political culture. I wonder if you could even have political conversations like you apparantly did &#8211; in other countries, including the US or Spain. You misrepresent their arguments and twist their views. Cubans know their history. They were speaking metaphorically if they said they were under US (capitalist) domination until 1959 &#8211; as they were!! They know other areas have universal health care, but they also know many countries in the region do not or have a terrible system where the rich get better treatment than everyone else (like Ecuador, where I just came back from). Cubans go abroad to help their neighbors and come back saying they have never seen poverty like that exists in Bolivia, El Salvador or Jamaica. </p>
<p>And it is not exploitation when your $8 sock purchases and $20 cab ride are being plowed back into basic education and health care, rather than a rich person&#8217;s pocket. Get real.</p>
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		<title>By: Davos Newbies &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Nothing progressive about Cuba</title>
		<link>http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119533</link>
		<dc:creator>Davos Newbies &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Nothing progressive about Cuba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/international/what-cubans-believe-in.html#comment-119533</guid>
		<description>[...] Martin Varsavsky on his first visit to Cuba: What follows is the story of a progressive Argentine/Spaniard who had a Michael Moorish view of Cuba until he actually visited the island. Now my view is that there&#8217;s nothing progressive about Cuba. That progressive in Cuba can only mean to get rid of the Castrismo and open up, not à la China, a country that is brutally capitalist now, but still managed by the Communist Party, but à la Hungary or most of Eastern Europe, evolving from Communism to a welfare state like democracy. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Martin Varsavsky on his first visit to Cuba: What follows is the story of a progressive Argentine/Spaniard who had a Michael Moorish view of Cuba until he actually visited the island. Now my view is that there&#8217;s nothing progressive about Cuba. That progressive in Cuba can only mean to get rid of the Castrismo and open up, not à la China, a country that is brutally capitalist now, but still managed by the Communist Party, but à la Hungary or most of Eastern Europe, evolving from Communism to a welfare state like democracy. [...]</p>
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