Comments on: 15 minute free surfing http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html Blog of an entrepreneur Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:31:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: denny http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-164403 denny Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:39:53 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-164403 thanks.good thanks.good

]]> By: sofia http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-72257 sofia Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:02:29 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-72257 [...]thank you all for the comments and what the best of activate in short time. http://hotels.lifeinitaly.com/ [...] [...]thank you all for the comments and what the best of activate in short time.
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]]> By: Alessandro http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-16142 Alessandro Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:27:00 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-16142 Just a little contribute to describe how is the situation in Italy: the police trace the IP of the internet connection that made sometihng bad, ask to the ISP the address of the user and the day after they arrive at the home of the user at 6.00 am, bring the pc to their office for further investigations and possibily conducts the user to the jail, not forgeting to give the name to the papers. After some days, the user has the possibility to ask the judge to ask to fon.com to give the logs of that fonera.... As you can see, a lot of troubles.... The best should be that every user connected to the public signal goes to the internet with a fon-IPclass, not the same of the fonero. It seems to me that fon is already going in this direction.... De todo modo, siguo pensando que fon es una lindissima idea! Regards, Alessandro. Just a little contribute to describe how is the situation in Italy:
the police trace the IP of the internet connection that made sometihng bad, ask to the ISP the address of the user and the day after they arrive at the home of the user at 6.00 am, bring the pc to their office for further investigations and possibily conducts the user to the jail, not forgeting to give the name to the papers.
After some days, the user has the possibility to ask the judge to ask to fon.com to give the logs of that fonera…. As you can see, a lot of troubles….
The best should be that every user connected to the public signal goes to the internet with a fon-IPclass, not the same of the fonero. It seems to me that fon is already going in this direction….

De todo modo, siguo pensando que fon es una lindissima idea!

Regards, Alessandro.

]]> By: Martin Varsavsky http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-15788 Martin Varsavsky Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:26:26 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-15788 Thank you Goetz! Thank you Goetz!

]]> By: Goetz http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-15588 Goetz Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:43:09 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-15588 Hi Martin, Thanks for the SMS authentication in Germany! I have my Fonera back online. Great Job! Regards, Goetz Hi Martin,

Thanks for the SMS authentication in Germany! I have my Fonera back online.

Great Job!

Regards,
Goetz

]]> By: Goetz http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-15587 Goetz Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:37:41 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-15587 Hello Martin, Fonera online again! Thanks for the SMS authentication! <strong>Great job from your team!</strong> Regards from Germany Goetz Hello Martin,

Fonera online again! Thanks for the SMS authentication!

Great job from your team!

Regards from Germany
Goetz

]]> By: Carsten http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-12906 Carsten Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:39:40 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-12906 Very sad, but true Martin. Just to keep you updated, this "new" court decision http://fon.gs/court/ makes it really viral to implement at least the SMS authentitication system in germany. Very sad, but true Martin. Just to keep you updated, this “new” court decision http://fon.gs/court/ makes it really viral to implement at least the SMS authentitication system in germany.

]]> By: Christian von der Ropp http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-7733 Christian von der Ropp Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:34:23 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-7733 Martin, In Germany owners of unsecured hotspots are liable (as "Störer") for copyright violations and other legal violations even of strangers and even if they don't notice anything and don't know about the possibility of others being able to access their hotspot. As happend in the verdict of the Hamburg district court linked above, people will not be hold liable for committing a violation, but for running an unsecured hotspots and so enabling someone else's violation. So Germans are liable even if they can prove it was someone else. ISPs and Telcos can't be hold liable because they do log exactly (not only DNS-queries and MAC-addresses like FON) and further they're obliged to run interfaces, through which authorities can immediatley put a trace on a certain user. FON can't do that and so FON won't be treated like an ISP. best regards, Christian Martin,

In Germany owners of unsecured hotspots are liable (as “Störer”) for copyright violations and other legal violations even of strangers and even if they don’t notice anything and don’t know about the possibility of others being able to access their hotspot.

As happend in the verdict of the Hamburg district court linked above, people will not be hold liable for committing a violation, but for running an unsecured hotspots and so enabling someone else’s violation. So Germans are liable even if they can prove it was someone else.

ISPs and Telcos can’t be hold liable because they do log exactly (not only DNS-queries and MAC-addresses like FON) and further they’re obliged to run interfaces, through which authorities can immediatley put a trace on a certain user. FON can’t do that and so FON won’t be treated like an ISP.

best regards,

Christian

]]> By: Christoph http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-7387 Christoph Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:13:00 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-7387 Martin, sorry but i really do not agree with the "east german comunist method" you suspect Thorsten et al want to reach. It's not the point that one user wants to bring another user in jail. It's simply jurisdiction that - in order to protect someone - limits the freedom of somebody else. What that basically means from a theoretical legal standpoint is that, in order to protect someone from criminals (typical example: try to defeat child pornography, which means protecting children from being sexually exploited from anonymous child pornography buyers), so in order to protect them, other peoples have to restrict their own rights (like anonymous surfing). It's always a trade-off between two just cases (your personal freedom vs. someone else's protection). Anyway, thats the idea behind it. I used to live in Germany, now I live in Italy and the Internet Access Regulation here is just as though as it is in Germany. Even thougher for what I kno. Us Foneros in Italy *DO* really live with one leg in the jail already. There's tens of thousands of hotels in italy that will give you free internet wifi access. But you will not even find one single hotel that will give you free wifi access without registration. That's because we are all required by legislation to track session data matched with a physical person. If I cannot prove who the other person was, than jurisdiction takes it for granted that it was me, or at least convicts me for helping criminals. Event without the 15min free surfing, that means with the requirement of a real registration, I am not really doing something really legal in Italy (providing free fon access), since we are not logging detailled session data. But being a fonero I accepted this illegal situation. I felt only a toe in jail, not more. But with the free 15min access, i really start to be afraid. A real anonymous person can use my hotspot. There's a saying in Italy: "in front of the judge and in high sea, you're in god's hand". A state prosecutor will have no difficulty in argumenting that, if something illegal was done from my fonera's free access, that it was me, using a modified MAC address to fake that it was somebody else. A judge will be able to follow that argumentation. Me, and many fonero friends, feel really afraid by this anonymous surfing possibility. I really urge you to discuss this with serious legal support in some of the european countries (Germany, Italy, etc). It's not that I want to protect this legislation or event that i want to push what you called "east german comunist" methods, I really and simply am afraid that things might turn against me. Regards, Christoph from South Tyrol/Italy. Martin,
sorry but i really do not agree with the “east german comunist method” you suspect Thorsten et al want to reach. It’s not the point that one user wants to bring another user in jail. It’s simply jurisdiction that – in order to protect someone – limits the freedom of somebody else.
What that basically means from a theoretical legal standpoint is that, in order to protect someone from criminals (typical example: try to defeat child pornography, which means protecting children from being sexually exploited from anonymous child pornography buyers), so in order to protect them, other peoples have to restrict their own rights (like anonymous surfing).

It’s always a trade-off between two just cases (your personal freedom vs. someone else’s protection).

Anyway, thats the idea behind it. I used to live in Germany, now I live in Italy and the Internet Access Regulation here is just as though as it is in Germany. Even thougher for what I kno. Us Foneros in Italy *DO* really live with one leg in the jail already. There’s tens of thousands of hotels in italy that will give you free internet wifi access. But you will not even find one single hotel that will give you free wifi access without registration. That’s because we are all required by legislation to track session data matched with a physical person. If I cannot prove who the other person was, than jurisdiction takes it for granted that it was me, or at least convicts me for helping criminals.

Event without the 15min free surfing, that means with the requirement of a real registration, I am not really doing something really legal in Italy (providing free fon access), since we are not logging detailled session data. But being a fonero I accepted this illegal situation. I felt only a toe in jail, not more.

But with the free 15min access, i really start to be afraid. A real anonymous person can use my hotspot. There’s a saying in Italy: “in front of the judge and in high sea, you’re in god’s hand”. A state prosecutor will have no difficulty in argumenting that, if something illegal was done from my fonera’s free access, that it was me, using a modified MAC address to fake that it was somebody else. A judge will be able to follow that argumentation.

Me, and many fonero friends, feel really afraid by this anonymous surfing possibility. I really urge you to discuss this with serious legal support in some of the european countries (Germany, Italy, etc).

It’s not that I want to protect this legislation or event that i want to push what you called “east german comunist” methods, I really and simply am afraid that things might turn against me.

Regards,
Christoph from South Tyrol/Italy.

]]> By: andy werner http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-7343 andy werner Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:42:09 +0000 http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/15-minute-free-surfing.html#comment-7343 This is absurd. Are mobile operators responsible for kidnapping threats made over their networks? Are transit organizations liable for damages incurred by reckless driving on their highways? I agree, the fonero is the first _accountable_ person in line. That doesn`t make him guilty. This is absurd. Are mobile operators responsible for kidnapping threats made over their networks? Are transit organizations liable for damages incurred by reckless driving on their highways?

I agree, the fonero is the first _accountable_ person in line. That doesn`t make him guilty.

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